I am FURIOUS right now

I don't want this to turn into a bitch board - there is already one of those.

BUT - I am so angry and if I don't say something, I will end up saying the wrong thing on a board and I don't wanna be ugly. Though, I really feel like unloading on this person right now.

Anyway, here is what is going on:
There has been a pair listed on GC for sale for a while. This particular pair is a flyer/glider pair that are living together. There has been so much discussion and such going on and everyone has an opinion, but no one was able to help. Brenda expressed that she would like to help, but doesn't have the room or money or something. Sorry, I forget the details of why it wouldn't work for her.

Anyway, long story short - No, actually, it is gonna be a long story. So, I contacted the guy placing the ad and told him that they were welcome to come here to live. He and I talked back and forth a few times and decided he would keep looking for someone closer who would pay his full asking price. That was fine with me. I don't NEED these babies. They did look pretty bad in pictures he sent, but not as bad as some that have come here. AND, they had some videos that looked pretty bad. And, I realize that I am in a position where I have the room and the time to devote to any unwanted baby, so I do offer when one is not finding a home. Most people never take me up on the offer, and that is fine. I have enough to keep me busy. I just know that I can help more if it comes to it. Know what I mean?

Anyway, not long ago he makes a "I'll try one more time" post. So, I remind him in a PM that my offer still stands. I don't hear anything for a week or so, so I don't think any more about it. At this time, I begin working to get Java and Cafe here. Well, the very day that Brenda leaves with Java & Cafe, this guy contacts me and tells me that he had 4 offers for the flyer/squirrel pair after he lowered his price to $50. He expressed a few concerns to me: one of which was that he was concerned that the people who had offered now were around before and he was afraid that they wouldn't be the best home if they weren't willing to pay the full price. Ironically, he said that he was impressed with my honesty from the get go (saying I wouldn't pay but they were welcome and would be loved here). So, he decided to do some checking on all 4 people and decided that he wanted them to live in my home. So, of course, I said OK. How can you say no to that? And, it was obvious to me then that he did care some about them. After all, I guess he could have made some money on them, but chose differently.

Again, I was kinda put off by the timing - they could have been brought to me with Java & Cafe, but his timing was really off. Anyway, I tell him that I would do some checking and see if anyone was driving from MN to the SGGA - the whole time feeling like a complete ass to even ask because I KNOW that Brenda just went out of her way for a railroad. But, I ask anyway. This entire time, I am trying to get more information from the man. But, he is very slow to respond to any of my communication. Like 3-4 days before he responds to a PM, and his website is no longer working and I don't have a phone number yet. Anyway, Brenda (cause she is so sweet) agrees to bring them with her. So, I have spent the last few days trying to organize all of this. I have sent and am waiting on a return of a release so that I can get his previous vet records. I have been researching flyers like crazy. I have gathered some food items for the flyer and he has agreed to hand feed the stuff that gliders should not have. I have agonized over whether they need to get here earlier, but he tells me they were seen by a vet about 6 weeks ago. And, I will say that the recent pictures I got look better than they looked in those videos. Anyway, I decided to wait for vet records before I panic. After all, I have learned through LOTS of experience that sometimes Less is More when it comes to medical treatment with these guys.

Now to the meat of the matter: This whole time, one of the other people who apparently REALLY wanted them is sending me PM's. At first, I wondered how she knew that I would be the one getting them. To be honest, I didn't really want anyone to know because I don't want to be grilled about them at the SGGA. I want to enjoy myself. But, it doesn't really matter how she knows, it isn't really some big secrete. So, her first PM was innocent enough - telling me about how they really captured her heart and how she is glad that they will be going where she knows they will get excellent care. I DID think at that time that maybe I would see if he would just give them to her since she wants them. But, I want to respect his wishes and I did say they were welcome here. So, this is something I am milling about in my head. But, then she starts to get a bit pushy. She then starts asking for regular updates on their care. I thought that was strange, as she has never met them or been involved with them at all. But, I told her that she could ask for updates any time and if I had something to report, I would. Then, she gets really strange. She continues with PMs telling me how much she wanted them and had already begun rearranging her life for them and such. She says she is already taken with them and really worries about them and on and on. It becomes a thing where it is VERY obvious that she is wanting me to offer them to her. Then she starts asking me questions about what I plan to feed them and do I plan to let them stay together and when will they see the vet and on and on. It was like she was interviewing me to adopt them! I was really put off by it. So, I just didn't respond to her last PM. After all, I don't have to answer to a darn person about what I plan to do with MY babies.

She becomes a bit bitter and goes to LGG and makes a post about how I should have decided all of this before Brenda came this way with Java and Latte. She just will not let it go. I understand now that she is really upset that she did not get them. If she knew that she was considered and passed up, she would be even more upset, I imagine. But, that was not my decision or my concern. At this point, though, there is NO WAY I would hand them over to her.

Well, like i said, I did not respond to the last PM. So, today, she gets all pissy and posts THIS on LGG:
OK call me snippy but I am not getting a response and the fact that I talked to this guy about getting them I care about what happens to them as I was all ready and set to take them in if needed. No one locally was responding and the ad was open and unrepiled to for DAYS before I PMed him to see if he would be willing to give them up since I KNEW they needed vet care and he needed to be neutered. I just really think they should get into a vet before 3 weeks from now. Val, you said "He is being very, VERY accomodating, so I am more than a little afraid that he is trying to offload them before they die. UGH! You are right, in the pictures they did not look too good."

Now I know you go above and beyond to help your babies and others' babies. I just do not feel that waiting three more weeks is a good idea if the above quoted is the way you really feel about this pair. Maybe you are busy and don't have time to respond as I know you have a lot of responsibility with your babies but I am sure I am not the only one that thinks these two need to be taken to the vet before then.

When I got my girl Ivy she had tapeworm...I will tell you, three weeks more for her without a vet would have likely been fatal. You never know what condition they really are in until you SEE them and please take note that the YouTube vids were loaded 4 months ago...so we really have no idea how there guys look ATM and I am really worried. I told you that I was taken by them and that once you have them and all that jazz I would like an ocassional update since I was ready to take them in and get what they need. No biggie, I know they will get what they need with you... but I am very concerned about their current well being staying with the current owner who very apparently does not know what he is doing with them looking the way that they do.

I am not trying to attack you, so if it is coming off that way I appologize in advance I just feel a little ignored since you responded to my initial PM, read the next and did not respond there or in this thread as well. Like I said earlier, maybe you are busy and I understand that, I am just concerned.

So, yes, I did say that about them being offloaded. But, that was before he told me they had recently been vetted (a fact he offered, I did not ask) and agreed to sign a release for me to get the records. So, I feel much better about it now. And, they do still have an appointment. Don't anyone shoot me, but I don't run to the vet anytime anything is wrong. I have a very good sense for when vet care is truely needed and when a loving home, good diet, enrichment toys, bonding and safety will make a huge turn around. For Pete's sake, I (well, God, but I did my part) healed Nugget's crushed legs with NO help from a vet or anyone above and beyond initial pain meds and x-rays. So, I deserve a little bit of credit. At least I think I do.

And, she is not getting a response from me because she is acting like a bitter, crazy stalker person.

ARRRRRRGH! I so want to give her a piece of my mind on LGG. But, I don't want to give the impression that I am a witch. I hope that others don't think that I am silent because Gwen is right. I might just reply when I can think of something nice to say. But, maybe not.

Am I over reacting? Is it possible that she is a very sweet, very sane person and I have completely misread her intentions? To be honest, I feel like she wanted them for the novelty of it. Or because she wanted to make them well and have everyone praise her. At least, that is how she talks. Geez - I was wanting no one to know - mostly because there was so much controversy about them and - well, just like when I didn't tell anyone but you guys (my friends) what I was doing with Nugget. I just don't like taking time out of my day to explain myself. I have a tendency to doubt myself, you know? Now she has plastered it all over the place, so there is no keeping it out of everyone's business now, is there?

I would post and say, yes, I recieved your PM. Yes, I saw this post. This is a private transaction. When I made my reply to you the first time, I wasn't done communicating with the owner, and now have much more information. I now realize that I should never have replied to your first PM, as you have taken that as your signal that you have a right to be involved in this, when the reality is you are not. And you're right, I am busy. Why you think you have the right or knowledge to criticize my care of animals I don't have is beyond me.
Or, you can be really blunt and say: This is a private transaction between myself and the owner. And you're right I am busy. Since you saw fit to bring this to the boards very publicly, I am publicly telling you that any further conversation between you and I concerning this pair is now terminated.

I think you are reading this correctly. She is a nosey busybody with nothing better to do with her time.

I'm mad for you (that darned nicotine demon), and I am more than happy to register over there and take her down for you :winky:

I seen that this morning before I left for work. I about died. How dare her post something like that. I swear that board is nothing but a bunch of people that need to GET A LIFE!!! I would honestly use one of Shawna's replies but I would add that you have already seen the vet records and all that. OH This makes me want to cuss and hey Shawna I'm still smoking so I can't use that excuse.

Also Val anything you need to know about Flyers ask Becky she use to have them. She has hand raised several.

One of the Karen's has them right now. Who else? Think, think, think...can't think. But, as to the other, I am happy to unload for you. :) All part of the service! At least something constructive can happen!

Mary (pappy) has a flier.

I have to go post on LGG. I'm not as ... restrained ... as you are, Val.

I posted on LGG. She replied.

Seems to have smooth things over .... I hope?

What was said? Or just give me the link to the board, and I'll register and go over there.

Alden was VERY diplomatic and sweet (no surprise there.)
Just the basic - "Val is working in ways you don't know" stuff.

However, I have slept on it and I am still ticked. So, I replied to her PM - I did not make a huge public post about it, but I did speak my mind. Here is what I said:
Here's the thing Gwen

I am going to keep on believing that you are a very kind person who just had very poor judgement in this situation. However, you must know that I am quite angry right now.

I have stewed over this for a while. Rest assured, all the things I want to say to you I will just keep to myself. How dare you question the care that I give to ANY animal I have agreed to care for? Before you go making situations public and making accusations that I might not be doing all that can be done to care for these guys, you might try giving this some logical thought.

Here are some facts for you:
1) You and I aren't friends. I barely know you. From your post on LGG, it is VERY clear that you have never met me and have no idea what I go through every day to save lives. So, it should be absolutely no surprise that "reply to Gwen about things that really aren't any of her business in the first place" is NOT top on my priority list. So, Yeah, I bet you could have waited several days for some answers from me. Answers, by the way, that you will never get from me now that you have behaved like a spoiled child who could not wait to try to defame me on LGG. For Pete's sake, Gwen, your last message to me was on TUESDAY at roughly 6:00. By WEDNESDAY - 24 hours later - you were feeling "ignored" and making that post on LGG. Here's a reality check: I AM very busy. That I did not respond to you in 24 hours should have clued you in that my world consists of much, much more than you.

2) I don't care if you are worried about them. You have to let that go. They are not coming to you and they are not your business or your responsibility. They are now my responsibility. I will let my history stand for itself. I will not give you the satisfaction of proving to you that I am doing my best for them. But, in the future, you can just rest assured that you and I have VERY different experience levels and I can hold my own when it comes to rescues.

3) I made my first reply to you before I was even finished communicating with the current owner. It might have occured to you that I was continuing to work on this situation and that I had more than one plan. Had you thought about the fact that you are dealing with ME here, it might have occurred to you that I would do whatever it takes to get them care WHEN then need it. It might have occurred to you that I know things that you don't. It might also have crossed your mind that perhaps there might have been an emergency situation in my family that required my immediate attention. But, I get the sense that the only one you were thinking of here was YOU.

4) I don't owe you or anyone else ANY explanation about the care I give to my babies. Again, history can speak for itsself here.

5) It was MY wish that it not be blasted all over the world that they were coming here. I would love to enjoy my SGGA without being grilled about them by everyone. So, thank you very much for spoiling that from the very beginning. You know, it really is not anyone's business where they ended up except MINE. I know that LGG is all about putting everyone's business out there, but I - for one - do NOT appreciate it in this case. It really seems like you are upset that they aren't coming to you. Well, not my choice. I am not sure what is really going on with you and this situation, but your responses - prying and asking for updates and details on my plans for them and then making that post on LGG - are, at a minimum, suspect. I now have an entirely different opinion of you and am now questioning your motives. Sure wish things were different.

From where I am standing, you have acted completely inappropriately here. I am sorry if your feelings were hurt when I did not reply immediately. Actually, no I am not sorry, but I do understand that it might have been hurtful to you. I did not reply immediatly because you were asking questions about that are not any of your business. YOU ARE NOT INVOLVED WITH THEM in any way. So, I don't owe you ANY explanation. AND, it was not an emergency or urgent AT ALL that I reply to you. Again, I am very busy caring for gliders, birds & dogs with needs that many never, ever see. Oh, and I have a job and a son and a family as well, so my life happens outside of this board or your PM. So, I did put replying to you on my "things to do later" list. I bet we both wish that THIS was not the reply you were getting, huh? Plain and simple - I DO NOT have to reply to you or to answer your questions about them at all. So, you can patiently wait til the end of time if that is what it takes. Your impatience and selfish thinking in this particular situation is so strange that it raises my suspicion. I doubt that was your goal here.

I am completely offended that you would publicly post questioning my decision making or the care I give to babies. I do not need you or anyone to tell me what looks good or bad in a video or otherwise. I have seen the worst and I have treated the worst. I am able to determine that on my own. I am also able to organize a rescue without any help. I wonder if you gave any thought to what YOU would look like making a post like that. Do you think that you made others question whether my entire past with gliders was just a fluke? The reason you were not getting the attention (by me or on LGG) that you were so desperately seeking in this situation is because it is clear that this situation is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. God bless you for being concerned about the wellfare of these babies, but you really have to find a new way to show it. I have been very concerned for others in the past, but my communication with them was not prying or accusatory or impatient. You have to realize that when they aren't yours, you can do no more than give advice. Sometimes, I shake my head and know that others will not follow my advice, but I can't change that. When they aren't your pets/babies, you have no privileges or rights. So, you have to be able to LET IT GO. We rescuers do it every day. It is hard, but it is the only reasonable and rational way to respond.

Sadly - if you in fact have become THAT attached to these two that you have never met, then you are gonna have a lot of worry filled days ahead of you. You crossed a line with that post on LGG, with your belief that I owe you any explanation, with your questioning of my dedication or abilities and with your complete disregard for the fact that I AM busy and I might not have time for this right now. So, any further communcation about these two between us .... well, there will be no further communcation. I was trying to be nice and allow you to indulge your worry and concern. However, I will not indulge the type of behavior you have demonstrated. I have plenty other things to worry about. It is a shame, though. It certainly did not have to go this way. Maybe in the future you will act differently.


The link, Shawna: LGG

Wow - eloquent, Val. Nice. I think you covered it all ...

I'm sorry it came to this, too. We all have experienced worrying about an animal that we have no control over ... it happens almost daily on GC ...

I wish this particular one had gone differently.

And guess who feels like they're stuck in the middle here? Me!

I really feel the whole thing has gone so much farther than it ever should have. I think both you (Val) and Gwen have gotten the wrong impression of each other and it just went to heck from there. I, obviously, don't know what Gwen said or asked in PMs or how rude she was. But, I think that how it kinda started was that Gwen's feelings were hurt that the owners didn't choose her for their home. And we all know how when our feelings are hurt and we're upset, we don't always think things through properly. I am not trying to defend Gwen, I just want it to be known that she is a good person.

In fact, 6 months ago she hated LGG and would never go on there - she thought it was just a bunch of complaining and whining. I think she started going their more when Cindy (Gliderlove) was banned from GC.

I'm just really sorry this whole thing has become what it is.

Brenda
I don't doubt that Gwen is a good person. That is why I started my reply to her with that very statement. However, she WAS way out of line by making that post. WAY out of line. You are right, it did go much further than it should have. She NEVER should have gotten her feelings hurt that I did not respond to her immediatly and then go make that post on LGG. THAT post was a whining brat that was upset that she did not get her way. I would be upset at ANYONE who behaved that way.

And, I don't think that her PMs were rude - but maybe that is a good word to explain them. They were, however, very strange and inappropriate. She was acting as if they were HER pets and she was interviewing me to adopt them. It is completely inapproriate to assume that you have any right to ask any questions or even for updates from anyone when the animals in question are not now nor ever have been yours. I admit, I was irritated with her before the post on LGG just because of how she was acting in her PMs. But, the post on LGG was the last straw. She never should have made that post. period. It was immature and solely motivated by her need to feel validated and to not feel "ignored."

I hope this was a learning experience for her. She is still young and I can forgive her bad judgement - in time. She acted immaturely and in the worst possible way, but maybe in the future she will keep private matters private. I guess only time will tell. The only thing in the way of an apology she has offered is:
"I also said that you may just be busy, said that twice actually and of course that was the fact, and as I had said, I was just concerned. I had also appologized in advance in case you felt "attacked", in type you never get anyone's feeling across and well simply if you can not accept the apology that I gave in advance there is nothing more I can do, sorry. I will not go around feeling sorry that I was concerned. I do not like to see/hear of animals in pain, sick, mistreated or any of that...so I cared, I tried to do what I could and since I cared I just wanted a little info to rest my mind and know they would be ok in the meantime and thereafter. You should be able to understand that. " Sorry, but I don't really consider that an apology. To me, it is the same as saying I'm gonna go ahead and commit murder on the hopes that God will forgive me later. But, I just have to kill someone. Maybe if I say I am sorry and don't mean to offend before and after the act, that will make the murder not quite so bad. But, maybe she is not sorry. She might not see anything wrong with having made that post..... with questioning my judgement, planning or efforts publicly like that...... with being upset that she didn't get the answer she wanted in a PM so deciding to post on a board known for allowing things to get blown out of proportion or for never letting things go. ME? Yep, I see lots wrong with it.

So sorry, Brenda, that you feel caught in the middle. If it makes you feel better: in my mind, there is no middle. This has come to an end. I don't have it in me to go on and on with her. She has offended me and angered me, but she isn't continuing to do so. Today, others have come along to fill her shoes. She won't be the last.

I just re-read the start of the thread on LGG and it looks like MNRarePets are the ones who told Gwen that you would be taking them in, Val. But it was me who said it would be at the SGGA - I'm sorry I let that cat out of the bag.

Okay, I'll try not to feel caught in the middle now. It's where I always seem to be, though - I think it's just my personality - I can see just about everyone's points of view and I always focus on the good of people instead of the bad. That's just who I am. And I guess I'm a good listener so I always hear both sides of things and just try to help each of the sides try to understand the other...it can be so exhausting! I've always gotten it at home, with friends, at work, etc!

Not trying to hijack this post, okay Val??? LOL

Brenda, I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a tendancy to take responsibility for other people's feelings and fix it. It is impossible. This could be a whole book for me. But, short, you have to tell yourself that it is not your responsibility to fix it. It has taken me 5 years from the realization of the issue, to get where the I'm not responsible is my first response.

Val, who took her place? Do I need to go take them down?

ugh - feeling responsible is something I do as well.

I think it has taken much longer ... maybe ... 16 (?) years to get to the point where I can talk to myself rationally rather than getting all caught up and feeling like I am some how supposed to fix how other people feel.